Santa Magno is letting out a hearty “Ho Ho Ho” in this special Christmas edition of the Bulging Mail Sack. And, yes, he IS referring to the staff of the new Saudi era Ring Magazine. Get it? “Ho Ho Ho” as in, “they’re all hoes?” Get it? Anyway, this week we have comments/questions regarding Usykmania, Tyson Fury’s legacy, and Tank’s latest (possible) cancellation.
Is Usyk and All-Time Great?
Magno.
What’s your opinion of Oleksandr Usyk as an all-time great? I can recognize the greatness of what he’s accomplished in his career, but there are some people putting him on the ATG great list, inside of the top 5 at heavyweight and altogether. I don’t know, man. The body of work just isn’t there, IMO. Even top 10 is really questionable for me. What do you think? Where does he rate on your list of all-time greats?
– Jay
Hey Jay.
Boxing people tend to utilize some, interesting, logic sometimes. The same people who regarded Tyson Fury as overrated are now using Usyk’s wins over Fury as validation to greatness. Only in boxing, can people regard someone as overrated and then overrate someone because he beat that overrated fighter. Like I said, it’s “interesting” logic.
For the record, I don’t think Fury was overrated for the most part. But, I guess, that depends on who you listen to and who you read. Personally, I didn’t see him as a great after he beat Wilder and I didn’t see him as a bum after he lost his first fight top Usyk (which could’ve easily been a win).
As for Usyk? Of course he’s being overrated if he’s already being mentioned in the same breath as guys like Ali, Frazier, and even Holyfield. I don’t do ATG lists. But if I were to make such a list, I’d be an absolute goof to put Usyk near the top of the ATG heavyweights with just seven heavyweight fights against five fighters (and only two with possible HOF credentials) when a guy like Ali went something like 18-4 against top 50, all-time, opponents and faced 14 future Hall of Famers. Even Evander Holyfield’s resume at heavyweight is considerably heftier, with wins and “should’ve been” wins versus Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Buster Douglass and post-prime George Foreman and Larry Holmes.
And, no, cruiserweight kingmanship doesn’t add a whole lot to Usyk’s ATG status. Because, well, it’s cruiserweight and because nobody he beat in that division is anything more than an afterthought in the sport’s big picture.
This isn’t a knock on Usyk, but rating him up among the all-time greats with his resume is absurd. It’s just boxing people being caught up in hyperbole. For a sport so obsessed with romanticizing its past, these people sure don’t like to put things in proper historical perspective. Why can’t people be good with just counting Usyk among the present tense greats?
Fury’s Legacy and Future/Usyk’s Legacy and Future
Paul.
While some argue that Tyson Fury's recent losses to Oleksandr Usyk could potentially tarnish his legacy, I still believe his overall achievements, including his dominant wins over Deontay Wilder and his technical prowess, are enough to keep his legacy largely untarnished. I believe these losses actually improve his legacy in ways considering how good he looked in both fights against a generational fighter in Usyk. On a different day, in a different venue with different judges, he could easily be 0-0-2 in my opinion. I had Saturday’s fight 115-113 for Usyk. That said, his resume is still a little thin in my opinion. What do you think? A win over Joshua cements his legacy I think as the best fighter of his generation not named Usyk. I would say he already is, but his resume is so thin.
Secondly, where does Fury go from here?
Me personally, I believe Usyk should go on and fight the winner of Zhang/Parker in either China or Australia. Before that happens, I believe he’s earned a showcase fight in Poland for his countrymen to enjoy (Ukraine clearly not being realistic). That would pave the way for Fury vs Dubois in Wembley with Joshua waiting. Do Fury and Joshua just get it on now for the sake of this fight finally happening? Should both take a tune up to come off wins; specifically Joshua?
I personally believe Fury is 2-4 fights away from being considered an all time great with wins over Joshua, one more name and even a rubber match with Usyk.
Merry Christmas man, appreciate your work.
– Greg
Hey Greg.
Merry Christmas.
I think the course of action for Fury is pretty clear, just as it is for Joshua. They need to fight now and cash in before any further losses diminish the shine of Fury-Joshua or before one (or both) flake out and/or walk away from boxing. At this point, I get the vibe that Fury is just about done with boxing and I don’t think he cares the least little bit about building upon his legacy. I do agree that his resume is thin when it comes to legacy/generational stuff, but like I said, I don’t see him caring about that stuff. For the record, I had him beating Usyk by one point the first time around and losing decisively this time. So, I have this Usyk rivalry at 1-1, personally.
Usyk, meanwhile, probably has two guaranteed marquee fights in front of him-- Dubois and the winner of Zhang-Parker. He’ll be 38 in June and I think limiting his options to a two-fight plan is probably most realistic. Maybe the winner of Bakole-Kabayel gets tossed his way after those two fights if he’s still champ. But, I agree, I think a soft touch would be fine next. He’s earned it.
Tank’s Cancellation
Hey Magno.
What do you think about Gervonta Davis canceling his fight with Lamont Roach on social media? Is this for real or is it just making publicity?
– Luis
Hey Luis.
Honestly? I’m completely bored with Tank Davis and his apparent inner angst and wild indifference when it comes to boxing. He’s a legit star and unquestionably the top American boxing star at the moment, but what good is all of that if he doesn’t fight and doesn’t make intriguing fights when he does? So, even if the Roach fight IS canceled (I’m hearing it’s not), it’s not like we’re losing all that much. Let him move on and be happy with whatever’s next in his life. If this is just a publicity ploy, it’s a pretty dumb one.
Got a question (or hate mail) for Magno’s Bulging Mail Sack? The best of the best gets included in the weekly mailbag segment right here at FightHype. Send your stuff here: paulmagno@theboxingtribune.com.